Jake Reason Member of Distinction Member of Valued Recognition. Award for exceptional contribution. - Admin Emeritus member is offline
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Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 11,717 Location: Canada Karma: 185
Re: ANALYSTS SUMMARY FINDINGS - DISCUSSION « Reply #240 on Aug 6, 2008, 4:14am »
I'd agree Mur that;
"since the photos are most likely all fake, whatever truth that remains, if any, is worthless as a tipping point for disclosure."
And so yes I agree;
"The lap is worthy of further study....imo for those in our community, not the gen pop."
There may not be sufficient drive left among the serious researchers to explore this. The DRT forum members appear partially restricted by a socio political correctness to pursue this. A type of contained peer pressure that has a grip on their collective conscience.
In the same way, this is also partially occurring here. (of which you are all too intimately aware)
And so the prospect of deeper investigative analysis may not be able to proceed by either parties Mur. Sad, but all so true, with all those who are involved.
I don't know what the answer is. But I do feel that a sense of "Permission" needs to be socially extended to everyone. I think this might open the door for a more mature analysis and investigation. And I truly believe that all parties want this.
I've always been a die-hard optimist, the guy with his head in the clouds, sort-of-speak. But Hey! you can see a lot further up here. (so I keep telling myself.)
I don't know what the answer is. But I do feel that a sense of "Permission" needs to be socially extended to everyone. I think this might open the door for a more mature analysis and investigation. And I truly believe that all parties want this.
I want it, but I don't know how to make it happen.
It has become personal
There is bad blood.
I can let it go, but it takes two to tango
This drone business has been fairly nasty for quite a long time.
I take no pleasure in being perceived as the enemy.
There is a drone mystery or mysteries to be sure.
But we seem to be looking in the wrong place.
PS I am looking forward to Mr. Smith's return, at least there is a happy ending there....maybe.
Please do not seek to divide us. I wrote : "here we have various experts who don't even seem to buy it." and good luck if you can set up a clear explanation in a magazine, for all to understand your point..
Not sure what your problem is, but many of us had no trouble understanding the problems Kris pointed out with the Raj image. Perhaps it would be useful for you to say which part you had trouble understanding.
And I hope you can get your experts to show why they disagree with that explanation, in an equally understandable demonstration.
I was on the hopeful side of this issue at one time. I have always admired the creativity of the stuff.
I will probably bring back my old avatar... down the line.
Sure, i recall good ole days at casebook. I guess old Marvin is still there. I understand this new you was your upgraded attire for the congrats party !
I was on the hopeful side of this issue at one time. I have always admired the creativity of the stuff.
I will probably bring back my old avatar... down the line.
Sure, i recall good ole days at casebook. I guess old Marvin is still there. I understand this new you was your upgraded attire for the congrats party !
I remember those days well Raska. It’s good to have you here too.
For me it is a bit ironic, the first case I have put any time into, to find myself forced into a “debunking” role. It would have been much more interesting and exciting if this were a real event. But gullible, I’m not… and I do not like it when someone tries to “pull a fast one.” We need to protect our fellow brothers and sisters who are not able to discern for themselves and are more accepting of these things.
On the other hand, we must vigilant for the real deal. Just because someone has an “odd sense of humor” and hoaxes such a thing, we still need to scrutinize the others (and not just lump things together in the hoax column) so we do not miss something. Just my opinion.
Lastly, I can never undermine the good work the DRT has done. Finding the Chad and Stephen location was no small achievement (by them and the PIs). The facts will win out in the end and I hope we will all be working together rather than apart.
Lastly, I can never undermine the good work the DRT has done. Finding the Chad and Stephen location was no small achievement (by them and the PIs). The facts will win out in the end and I hope we will all be working together rather than apart.
I ( and most of us ) have the same hope as yours, and reading a few kind words revive that hope.
Thank you Marc for coming, we are honored that you would take the time to weigh in! I have visited your website and found it a great and rewarding experience.The thread you might want to post in is the same title as here. Feel free to cut and paste if you have not already done so. although it says no discussion, it is a showcase for both both sides of the argument. If you have any display like San Jose conference by all means do add to the comments comment. Again Open minds Forum welcomes you as a memebr, and thanks you for what you have done for the entire Community. Cheers! ES
Thank you all for the warm welcome.
I have been following not so much the DRONE thread as it relates to the Drone Technology as that I believe has been shown quite adequately to be a neat imaginative story. I have been paying more attention to the analysis techniques that many of you have been using and this is where I wanted to weigh in and say that thanks to the readily available tools for creating 3D objects, we can recreate not just objects but entire environments. Some of you have done this to great effect actually, and I noticed how pole shadows were examined using this approach and as hard as the investigator's job is getting, we too have great tools to counter the hoaxers. One thing I wanted to mention though is something I shared with the MUFON crowd and think you should know this too. In part of the talk I did I mentioned that the next generation of renderers is now readily available. These are called Physical Renderers for those who dont already know that. I am sure some of you know of these though... Products such as fryrender [always lower case... ] and Maxwell~Render are two that we use. With Maxwell for instance you put in for lack of a better term, lighting that is measured in watts. So you can put a pair of 60 watt bulbs in your scene light "fixture" that you create and render the scene which iteratively improves on the scene, calculating every photon, over time. If you let it got for a day, your image will look pretty darn good compared to if you let it go for an hour. Not only that, you get pretty much exactly what a pair of 60 watt bulbs would give you in a real world counterpart to your digital model room. One giveaway item on these renderers is a potentially grainy final image if you do not let it go long enough. But... using a product like Noiseware, you can remove the graininess algorithmically and this brings the very real possibility of images being presented to the investigator that are very real right down to the shadows within the shadows. This is something hard to achieve with normal Radiosity type renderings.
So that is just a note regarding what is not just coming but already here. I will show you what I mean at some point when I get a moment. As you can see its 1am my time and I am just getting to the forums... I look forward to more!
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,048 Location: UK Karma: 48
Re: ANALYSTS SUMMARY FINDINGS - DISCUSSION « Reply #249 on Aug 7, 2008, 8:44am »
Hi FX, welcome to the board.
I mentioned Maxwell to this rowdy bunch ( ) a while back. I think the topic was getting on to levels of detail and realism... so i posted up some links to various work from the Maxwell gallery. As is always the case, the results are mainly due to the artist, and not the paint they use. But Maxwell does transend that, and makes good work look so much better.
I'll post the images here again, because I think it demonstrates the point so well...
Thank you Marc for coming, we are honored that you would take the time to weigh in! I have visited your website and found it a great and rewarding experience.The thread you might want to post in is the same title as here. Feel free to cut and paste if you have not already done so. although it says no discussion, it is a showcase for both both sides of the argument. If you have any display like San Jose conference by all means do add to the comments comment. Again Open minds Forum welcomes you as a memebr, and thanks you for what you have done for the entire Community. Cheers! ES
Thank you all for the warm welcome.
I have been following not so much the DRONE thread as it relates to the Drone Technology as that I believe has been shown quite adequately to be a neat imaginative story. I have been paying more attention to the analysis techniques that many of you have been using and this is where I wanted to weigh in and say that thanks to the readily available tools for creating 3D objects, we can recreate not just objects but entire environments. Some of you have done this to great effect actually, and I noticed how pole shadows were examined using this approach and as hard as the investigator's job is getting, we too have great tools to counter the hoaxers. One thing I wanted to mention though is something I shared with the MUFON crowd and think you should know this too. In part of the talk I did I mentioned that the next generation of renderers is now readily available. These are called Physical Renderers for those who dont already know that. I am sure some of you know of these though... Products such as fryrender [always lower case... ] and Maxwell~Render are two that we use. With Maxwell for instance you put in for lack of a better term, lighting that is measured in watts. So you can put a pair of 60 watt bulbs in your scene light "fixture" that you create and render the scene which iteratively improves on the scene, calculating every photon, over time. If you let it got for a day, your image will look pretty darn good compared to if you let it go for an hour. Not only that, you get pretty much exactly what a pair of 60 watt bulbs would give you in a real world counterpart to your digital model room. One giveaway item on these renderers is a potentially grainy final image if you do not let it go long enough. But... using a product like Noiseware, you can remove the graininess algorithmically and this brings the very real possibility of images being presented to the investigator that are very real right down to the shadows within the shadows. This is something hard to achieve with normal Radiosity type renderings.
So that is just a note regarding what is not just coming but already here. I will show you what I mean at some point when I get a moment. As you can see its 1am my time and I am just getting to the forums... I look forward to more!
Marc
Hi Marc. Glad to have here at OM forums. I was wondering, if time allows, if you could review the "Analysts Summary Findings- No Discussion" thread and give us your opinion on the findings, particularly the research on Raj pic0016. There seems to be two separate lights sources, one for the pole (the sun), and one for the drone (fake source). Is there any way you can peer review this research and validate the findings if correct? Your expertise and knowledge in these matters is much appreciated and respected. Any help would also be appreciated. I understand you are a busy man so no rush. If you find the time...
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) a while back. I think the topic was getting on to levels of detail and realism... so i posted up some links to various work from the Maxwell gallery. As is always the case, the results are mainly due to the artist, and not the paint they use. But Maxwell does transend that, and makes good work look so much better. ![[image]](http://www.maxwellrender.com/img/gallery/sci-fi/pics/mverta_r2_closeup.jpg "[image]")
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