Fore: Thanks for laying out the extent of behavioral modification in your life. You provided some good examples of how it manifested for you. And I hope everyone understands that the factual validity of those examples is independent of your personal views on them.
Montalk,
And please tell me how that is possible?
Do you not realize that our own personal view colors EVERYTHING in our reality? Oh yes. We all see through the colored glasses of our own life experiences (which vary from person to person).
How could it be otherwise?
That is only half the equation. The other half is is the objective foundation upon which we project our personal view.
If we all wore different colored glasses and looked at a tree, we would all describe the tree differently. But the tree itself stays real and independent of our views.
In fact, by comparing our separate views and figuring out what they have in common - like seeing leaves, branches, and a trunk - we could figure out the independent reality.
And so by cross-correlating our personal experiences with each other and the available literature out there on UFOs and alien abductions, enough of an independent reality emerges indicating that not all alien agendas are ethical or benevolent.
Quote:
We become "victims." But, not "victims" of some "other" but of OURSELVES.
We are our own worst enemy.
Sort of... it takes two to tango. Even if we attract or allow a particular experience, there is still a perpetrator with independent freewill who plays the other part.
If you believe in the existence of freewill and karma, you must also believe that freewill violations exist. And whenever there is a freewill violation, there is a victim and victimizer.
The victim mentality you rightfully criticize is the kind where a person gives up all responsibility and power through a self-defeatist attitude.
The answer is not to say there are no victims, or to try and push the victim into rationalizing the experience as a good thing, but for the victim to gain knowledge and take back his or her share of the responsibility and power to do something about it.
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Transitional Avatars are a Pain!!!
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Re: My Experiences (Grey, Pleiadeans and Oddities) « Reply #1276 on Sept 8, 2008, 8:59pm »
@ Nestingwave (Bob)
Let me first say what is in my mind, heart, and gut.
I want to admit that I have mostly been very passive for the sake of watching you with infinite fascination. I am actually sitting here and laughing at the huge coincidences that are becoming apparent.
What coincidences?
Well first let me be as transparent as possible. I found it odd on your first post that you filled in a much needed (well according to the views of my group) disclaimer that basically says it's not what is being "done to me" but that it is "simply my perceptions" that are coloring my experiences.
This is true to a very limited extent. I know that, you know that. But....I feel that this cannot be "over-extended" to cover too many issues as then it runs into a self-delusion of sorts (IMO of course).
But when you finally did come out of the closet I sorta had a big laugh when I saw that you answered my request on whom your group had been. (The grey and the pale entity that mimics so closely my own group). Hence, this is why I have been very passive because I have been sitting here watching and learning from your experiences. I want to understand how such a massive "coincidence" can occur.
So I watch with utter fascination of the events that (quite amusingly) defy common logic. But rather than try to defend my view or anything like that I would rather listen intently to what you have to say. I want to learn from you in how you express yourself and learn for future reference.
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Therefore I ask: Bob, do you percieve any of the slightest hints of any kind of TI? (Thought insemination). Any headaches or any ideas "suddenly" popping up in your mind. Any feelings or urges to write specific things?
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In your latest writing I noticed you used concepts that the advisor taught me. As many others can note, after having read my thread, it will sound familiar. But the way you have written it made me fairly surprised.
I sit here in deep wonderment at how utterly fascinating you are. Up above you write about freedom and casting off repression. About overcoming any force that attempts to control society or hamper it.
Man, let me tell you, I find your words truly....fascinating. How is it that you are able to re-express the exact same things back to me but with a different "slant" to the information. Where the aliens are not victimizers (sp?) but...somehow...we are? I am still trying to figure you out to be honest. And your so incredibly "coincidental" on so many levels that I am literally confounded by the string of coincidences.
As the proverbial saying goes, I can see the smoke but not the fire. So I have to ask, where is the fire?
Did your last post come from reading the other 70+ pages of this thread and my other posts in other parts of this forum? Or is the last post you made genuinely yours? Is there even the slightest hint of any abnormal feelings or sensations or urges your cannot explain over there Bob?
I am literally so confounded, that I cannot help but ask you this. How is it that you are able to be so "coincidental"? Just tell me it is a coincidence and that there is a rational explanation for all of this.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want you to go away nor think that your view isn't appreciated. Because I do appreciate it. I can't imagine any dialog better for my thread than another who has seemingly had a very similar experience yet runs contrary to my own observations.
If you can imagine, I am enjoying this alot, for various reasons.
But I can't help but ask: Is this all really coincidence? Don't you find it strange?
Why did you suddenly post here now and not before? What do you feel is your motive for sharing this all now and not previously? You had said you had remained silent before.
I just want to observe closely what is happening in your mind. Because from my view point I am growing ever more fascinated by your content that you express and what the actual message is in it's own understanding. I am amused by seeing all the right patterns so I wanted to ask you specific questions to see if you observe any (well known by me) oddities in your mindscape.
Let me tell you an old story so you understand why I have such an interest and why I ask such questions or even raised such suspicions.
This is all based on the premise (that I am sure you'll agree) that our minds are not confined to the 4 corners of our skull.
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About 10 years ago from 1997 to 2002. I had the advisor right next to me at the time. And I used to talk about her and her information just as I do now.
Often times she and I had disagreements and I wouldn't listen to her. So she would use whomever was speaking to me to transfer a message.
She would make a point of making sure I was still hearing her in my mind through telepathy while making the other person thousands of miles away reiterate the same speech almost word for word.
At first I thought, wow that so cool! Then I sucumbed to the feeling of: "Wait, that not possible right?" Then she would turn around and explain what she had always explained and reminded me that the mind of a person is just a set of consistent forces interacting with one another. Linking up psychically (or "intersecting") with a remote consciousness and transmitting/emanating a thought is the basis by which telepathy occurs.
So she cleared that up for me. And at first it was so "ultra cool" that I asked her to do that again and again. Well she did it a few times and then she refused. And only used it when I refused to listen to her directly. She would simulcast her thoughts through more than one individual throughout a day to get her point across.
Yes, I understand, this isn't what your parents taught you is possible or even a reality "down here". But this is the reality they live with "up there".
It is one of many secrets. Because the idea that they can affect someones mind from thousands and thousands of miles away, is so dangerous to our understanding of the rule of our reality. That they simply opt not to explain it.
They simply "skip" over that fact and stamp down on any mention of such a thing. Montalk is in charge of that thread which talks about this in detail. It is called "TI".
There are also other methods I nick named recently as TM (thought manipulation) which is slightly different. When an ET reaches into your mind and rearranges the "forces" of influence inside your mind. It creates an interruption that is apparent from a psychics view point. It tells you that this person has experience a rearranging of the "deck chairs"(feelings, thoughts) on their boat (mind).
They can apparently even make you feel ecstasy. I remember that one time while I was in the bathroom washing my hands, the advisor walked up to me and asked me if I wanted to feel unconditional love for a second?
I said huh? (not knowing what she was going on about)
She said at the time that if I wanted to feel unconditional love she could try it out on me for only a moment.
So I said sure, (not really understanding what she was thinking).
Then suddenly for just a few seconds, I felt this tremendous and stupendous emotional reaction of absolute love. And then it faded as quickly as it came. I was to say the least...flabbergasted. I didn't know what she had done to me but she more or less said it was a talent.
But she never used it again on me.
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So what did I learn from this?
These ETI's (Extra-Terrestrial Intelligences) can make you feel, see, experience, and think things in various intensities.
They can control the thoughts in your mind and that of others. Your belief in them (as montalk mentioned) is unnecessary. They can do it as easily as you can pick up an a piece of paper.
So yes, there are contactees/abductees who think they cannot be lead by the nose and shown things and experience things which simply aren't true. Using various methods to convince them is highly disturbing, but true.
I have seen it performed on skeptics and believers alike. But back then, as soon as everyone closed their screens all evidence disappeared.
This is now a forum more than 10 years later. I assume they are far more cautious now that this is more or less permanent. Everything is a record of events. And as such they have to be careful what record they leave behind.
That includes removing dates and times. Asking me to be very vague ( ) about some of their activities. And as well as being careful what they display.
And when a person like me has his little dispute with them, they have to cue in contactee number 2 to clean up the mess and make sure they have some "perception control" as ED K. put it.
I used to call it "information shaping". But "perception control" rolls off the tongue alot better.
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Having said all that:
I wonder if you might be acting completely unaware of the influences on your mind? (please keep an eye out for that)
or
If I am being excessively paranoid this week and this is just simply an amazing coincidence of fortune.
or
If you are soley responsible for you words and there is alot of smoke but no fire?
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Anyway, I am not looking to push you away or something like that. That would be very dumb. I am simply asking you to take a very close examination of your thoughts and your inner self to see if you find any oddities and any abnormalities. As your words, the timing and all that raise my suspicions about the coincidences.
I'd also love to know who taught you about the concepts above Bob, as you sound like the advisor herself with a twist.
I hope you understand why I ask. It is nothing personal, but I wish to put my suspicions to rest. Let me also say that you are an interesting man.
Some people mistake compassion for weakness or think of it as giving in. It is neither. It takes a much stronger person to show that compassion while at the same time, doing their job.
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 75 Karma: 5
Re: My Experiences (Grey, Pleiadeans and Oddities) « Reply #1277 on Sept 9, 2008, 5:32am »
I feel like I want to add my thoughts here. Actually I don't want to but I think I should.
I have been reading this thread a very long time I suppose because I am trying to cope with seeing ufos frequently. This experience doesn't really fit in with a normal day to day life but I hope to make sense of it and not let it get the better of me. Fore, you are enlightening and I so appreciate your thoughtful posts. For months I have been struggling with the rotten feeling that maybe these beings are always there messing with our perceptions. For the past month I have not seen a ufo and it is odd and I don't know what to think of that but it has enabled me to take a step back and look at it with different eyes and shockingly on Sunday a week ago I came to the conclusion that it was a mirror really and it was aiding a natural evolution of humanity and it was the source of oneness that expressed itself through me. These thoughts seemed a revelation and a relief to me. Then I came on to OM and read nestingwaves post which completey resonated with me and I understood what he said in a very intimate way! I couldn't believe that he posted that right when I was thinking it, how totally crazy is that? I was shocked to put it mildly that my thoughts were coming out of someone else. It felt like my personal struggle had become public domain.
The conversation between the two of you is so interesting but very disturbing.I worry that perhaps my own path is not my own after all. Today when I think of how I could possibly think I understood anything it seems absurd. I don't think I can even explain it again although when it came to me it was all I could think of. And Fore, when you talk of the feeling of love the advisor produced, I have experienced that and at first I thought it was wonderful to feel the love and then the next time I wondered how they did that,make me feel love just out of the blue like that, it seemed they used that emotion. I had a 'hey wait a minute that's not right' moment and then the next time I felt nothing. I observed and felt nothing. No love, no fear. I think that was progress for me. I really don't know what it going on but I want my own thoughts and feelings.
Thanks for the thought provoking thread everyone. I hope my chiming in here is useful. I find it extremely difficult to articulate these thoughts.
And Fore, when you talk of the feeling of love the advisor produced, I have experienced that and at first I thought it was wonderful to feel the love and then the next time I wondered how they did that,make me feel love just out of the blue like that, it seemed they used that emotion. I had a 'hey wait a minute that's not right' moment and then the next time I felt nothing. I observed and felt nothing. No love, no fear. I think that was progress for me. I really don't know what it going on but I want my own thoughts and feelings.
Often, when I say something it is because there is alot of background experiences and situations that I don't bother to mention. Mostly it is because no one is asking, so I don't offer it.
But many people are, I admit, going to be duped because there are restrictions in information being shared. Even coming from me.
Right now I have a rare opportunity to freely speak. And I deeply wonder why no one is stopping me to be honest. Maybe I am somehow fulfilling part of their agenda? Maybe they changed their mind?
These are questions I have no answers to. All I can do is wonder.
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All I can say is ordinary human experiences do not prepare people for what is behind the curtain. Many people do not think further than their lives and so there is really no need to consider anything beyond our daily life.
The rare few who do experience these encounters will indeed have many wild stories to tell and odd experiences that they may not have any solid explaination for.
The advisor taught me herself many lessons on how to detect deception. And in the end I didn't notice some of the things she put in place around me. Maybe because I was too distracted. Maybe because I didn't have enough time to analyze so many things with clarity.
I dunno.
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All that I can offer is the information that I did learn from them and how it related to my experiences. I know that given the talents they have and the nature of the human mind and how we work that controlling what someone thinks is somewhat trivial.
On you day to day activities. Notice how your decision making runs it's course and how it is that you reaffirm a good decision from a bad one.
Some individuals (if not all people at least some of the time) gauge their decisions by instinct and the state of their emotions. Also some people employ intellect to make that process work to varying degrees.
Having said this:
I once asked a person in this thread what they would do if they were walking down a road and suddenly a woman whom they have never seen before were to walk up to them and smile and look them in the eyes.
I asked that person how they would react if they suddenly felt they had seen this woman before. Of how they felt they had known them for all their lives.
I asked the above question to gauge the mental processes of that individual to determine what kind of reaction they would have to such information.
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I for one, do not possess nor know how to change the internal contents of a persons mind nor of their perceptions. But if I did, I would run this test live with people over and over again until they understood the gravity of how their internal routine shapes up against an entity who can modify your perceptions and the content of your experience in an unseen fashion.
I am very rigid for a few very specific reasons.
If an alien says that they are hover over my home. I will bluntly ask "show me" with no reservations. I challenge them not for the sake of challenging them (most of the time) but for the sake of understanding through objective observation.
It becomes a daily part of my life or I simply label it as a claim until proven otherwise. No matter how logical it may sound to me.
I don't move from this position on their claims as to do so would open myself to many kinds of trickery. So I limit how much I vouch for. And there is always a hidden history of experiences with many of the things I attest to.
Without those hidden events that no one asks me about I wouldn't vouch for them if I didn't observe it directly.
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And to place things in perspective. How hard would it really be for an ETI to come into your room to induce an altered state of mind and cause you to think that what you are observing is actually for your benefit?
A rational person would assume this is false at the drop of a hat if they were asked to give up bodily fluids as it may not make any sense to them. But if the ETI pulls memories from the experiencer and shows that person a "mental phantasm projection" of a dead relative who says you can believe it, or worse shows a loved one who tells them it is okay. And this person gives in for that reason.
Then what else can you convince this person of?
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@ Anybody
Listen, take the above as an example. I will be exceedingly frank about it. The aliens I have met and known (the males) think of the human mind as a process with a certain dynamic. Rather than something precious or sacred or untouchable.
From their vantage point they understand that human beings associate with one another. They know human beings typically relate to one another and trust some people more than others. They understand the internal working of your mind.
On a brief scan I have noted they can understand alot about you. Heck, you may not even be aware of the scan as it occurs.
But if they understand you by reading your mind. They know what points and factors to apply pressure to. They are intellectual beings. They will do what they came to do within the confines of their protocol.
From the males I know, you would not be treated as an equal entity. You would simply be a thing. A task. Nothing more. What pain your feeling is nothing more than a factor to be considered towards the success of the end goal. If too much pain affects their end goal negatively, then they will remedy the situation. If not, then it is the same to them really (IMHO).
Unlike a human mind which is largely only aware of a linear progression of time. The males and many aliens are capable through their psychic talents to peer into the future to a varying extent. They can grasp and comprehend what has not yet occurred. They can modify their present behavior until the future shows that they will be successful.
This idea is foreign down here. People only have a light experience with such a thing. Mostly confined to a few psychics on this earth with some latent ability to see information. Up there, it is about the same as using your eye balls to see the world around you. It comes in very handy.
No doubt the few of you who have met ET's or recall having met them will notice they sometimes opt to tell you of things which haven't actually taken place yet.
It is not always by planning but by virtue of experiencing segments of the future. So they often know of things well in advance.
Some aliens have it and some may not.
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In either case, they use all these facilities to garner your trust and make a relationship...if that is necessary. It's usually business with the ones I have met.
Even the advisor used her own talents to mold the situation the best she knew how and through the best optimal choices that were allowed. (at least that's what she said in her defense of course )
Often times I didn't understand it. But sometimes I was told about what was on her mind and what she needed.
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Point is, they are not human. We shouldn't assume they have human qualities of understanding nor that they experience reality on par with how we experience reality.
They know who we are and how we work it seems. They have explained a great deal of information to me and it is frankly disturbing to see them have so much knowledge about our insides.
Unlike interaction with other human beings, your mind can be tampered with through unseen changes and emanations. You'll feel some symptoms when it occurs. but you won't necessarily be strong enough to avoid it.
What you can do is question it. And question it properly. Test everything. Don't be bashful to put the aliens through tests. If they aren't willing to participate then hand them their contactee pink slip and say you won't be working with them anymore.
Don't listen to junk excuses. They usually probably are junk excuses.
Be rational, be smart and do everything you can to remain grounded. When you find information, tell everything about how you came to learn it. Explain everything in as much detail as possible.
Don't hold back anything no matter how insignificant. As your record of experience will be useful to other people. And how you obtained that information is just as important as the information itself.
Be vigilant and make sure you don't fall for any of the discussed tricks these aliens employ to keep a handle on the situation. Make sure you are independent in your thought and don't try to be a hero as no one really needs one.
Just be you.
That will be enough to help other people get through the issue of being an abductee or a contactee. And best of all be honest.
There are others who have gone through it all as this thread testifies to that.
Some people mistake compassion for weakness or think of it as giving in. It is neither. It takes a much stronger person to show that compassion while at the same time, doing their job.
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Re: My Experiences (Grey, Pleiadeans and Oddities) « Reply #1279 on Sept 9, 2008, 7:36pm »
Quote:
What you can do is question it. And question it properly. Test everything. Don't be bashful to put the aliens through tests. If they aren't willing to participate then hand them their contactee pink slip and say you won't be working with them anymore.
I find this to be a paradox, how do you hand an ETI a pink slip, when they can force their actions upon you, or get their point across thru other persons you are communicating with? Your own accounts point to your refusals being circumvented repeatedly.
I can see keeping your wits about you, and enforcing a calm demeanor upon yourself in order to maintain a state of mind from which observations can take place. From your own account questions are answered when it suits their purposes. The question would be how do you go about to make it in their best interest to do so?
It appears that we are talking about timeline manipulation, wherein one set of entities is specifically accessing past and future points to manipulate a present perception. Physicality, of the present moment seems to be less important to them then directional control of future perception. I do not expect you or anyone having the ability to answer but a question I have on this is, why?
How many times were you blocked from posting before they left due to perception, not so much about content, but your intent behind the words you were posting? I am left to wonder if ETI is somehow aware that the intent behind a message has the ability to shape the future emotional perception of a group. Would you say that ETI was concerned about the intent and an ability to transfer this intent as an inseminated perception?
To explain:
Is this concern due to recipients’ inability to understand where this perception came from, other then to believe it as their own? I have to ask if this was ever explained to you, and if so how?
More specifically are you using this as a tool to negotiate with ETI?
What you can do is question it. And question it properly. Test everything. Don't be bashful to put the aliens through tests. If they aren't willing to participate then hand them their contactee pink slip and say you won't be working with them anymore.
I find this to be a paradox, how do you hand an ETI a pink slip, when they can force their actions upon you, or get their point across thru other persons you are communicating with? Your own accounts point to your refusals being circumvented repeatedly.
Yep. But I am hoping that in some contact cases, the ETI's will respect the refusal to extend contact and opt to "go away". I'd have to ask Garuda whether many ETI's are forceful or not in the present literature or not.
I assume for abductees they are. I dunno what to think about contactees though.
I can see keeping your wits about you, and enforcing a calm demeanor upon yourself in order to maintain a state of mind from which observations can take place. From your own account questions are answered when it suits their purposes. The question would be how do you go about to make it in their best interest to do so?
Correct. If it really doesn't serve their interest then they don't bother. But if they think it is worthwhile or that it seemingly puts things into a favorable condition later on, then they will opt to "join in".
And yes, that is from direct observations from my past.
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Look at what happened with triform. I coaxed someone to join me in a taunting routine to try to cause a reaction. The only reason I accepted Triforms request of the males getting his name and identify information was because I knew the males would protect my reputation.
What I gambled on was that, knowing the males, they would opt to discredit me. I know that's what they wanted because they said so. So rather than fighting the inevitable, I played a game of strategy and sought to use the discrediting to my advantage.
I know them well. I know a good deal of how they think (the males). And rather than fight them in their game I would rather poison the game field to an extent they didn't plan on.
What I mean is this:
If they failed to answer Triform (which they opted not to) they would in effect discredit me as people would think they weren't real. [An advantage and a protocol they have to adhere to.]
Knowing I could change that since it was in their power to deliver or not, and knowing them they wouldn't. Instead of resisting I decided the best course of action was to turn around and amplify the effects of my discrediting.
By opting to tell Triform that I take his challenge (knowing full well that the males were likely not to answer his challenge) I posed an even bigger loss than the males were opting for.
Rather than some mild discrediting I wanted to made completely clear that if I failed I would be completely and totally discredited.
I know the males wanted doubt cast over my words and recountings. But I also knew they wouldn't want "that much".
So I plunged head long into the challenge hoping the males would do something and that Triform would gloat over the failure. I was banking on it.
And you should have felt the mental rumblings LOL.
The males became upset and they talked up above ALOT within themselves or somebody. I dunno what they spoke about. But they surely did talk about me and my actions I bet, LOL.
If they wanted a mile of doubt I gave them 10 extra to worry about and that would have surely have run afoul of what they were banking on happening.
Instead as I waited and waited for their days long conversation to end and them to give me their answer....they did nothing but say "wait" and "don't answer".
So that's exactly what I did.
Triform became impatient and I told him what they told me. I knew the males must have been stalling for a reason. They kept reiterating to wait. Wait for what though? I do remember them muttering something about "a window of opportunity".
I started to become impatient just as much as Triform. When they didn't answer I told triform his answer was unlikely to be given. I was waiting for Triform to begin gloating about how the males didn't exist and all that.
Instead he suddenly, tells me that he must "go away" or "leave" before the beginning of august? [Why?] Then what I had hoped would happen fizzled out....
And now that I think about it, I wonder why did triform leave? Why didn't he gloat like he was supposed to? Why did it just abruptly end without the skeptical dance being done. I guess either things didn't go down as I expected or the males might have done something and that is what the "window of opportunity" was about?
We won't know until Triform comes back...?
Anyway, I don't know how much impact that discrediting thing had on my reputation. I think it honestly fizzled out into a softer impact than I had expected. In the end I think the males got exactly what they wanted and I didn't.
Had it gone down as I expected I know the males would have had a pickle on their hands. Once I would have discredited myself sharply and intentionally. They would have to do something to make my recounting once again attractive at the level a "plausible doubt" instead of "absolutely debunked". But how they would achieve something like that is beyond my imagination.
I know that if someone does something which hurts the males agenda they would surely step in either in public or most likely unseen behind the scenes where no one would know. (i.e. paying the person a visit to discourage them or scare the heck out of them. Other times suspicious circumstances occur behind the scenes and the other person suddenly becomes troubled and discontinues.)
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Anyway, if you know how, you can illicit a response from an ETI. The question is finding the right fulcrum to stir them into action. They always seem to protect their interest. But it is far from easy as they have a large advantage on their side.
It appears that we are talking about timeline manipulation, wherein one set of entities is specifically accessing past and future points to manipulate a present perception.
This should read:
"It appears that we are talking about timeline manipulation, wherein one set of entities is specifically accessing past and future points [in time] to manipulate a present perception situation."
Yes, that is correct. As I stated months ago, they are non-linear planners.
Physicality, of the present moment seems to be less important to them then directional control of future perception. I do not expect you or anyone having the ability to answer but a question I have on this is, why?
I don't understand your words. You might be applying the wrong terms to describe the situation.
It should read:
"Physicality, of t [T]he present moment seems to be less important to them than [the] directional control of future perception situations."
Why? I don't know the end goal. Except they all seem to think that the world is inevitably going to go through a reset cycle. Some of the ET's I know have said they have (in my own words) written off almost all of humanity. It is too certain to really change.
And as we march towards the future it is beginning to manifest itself. But some of them have told me they don't want to "rock the boat" as they aren't here to change things in the sense of saving people. They simply want to pluck out individuals and genetic material to help [themselves] in a situation where the future is far more viable than the near future we are walking into blindly. They also sometimes state in effect, that they come here to make sure the survivors make it out alive and the rest are water under the bridge.
A "farm" of historical genetics of sorts (the males to be specific). Sometimes the males claimed they are here to ensure they can mine "the walking dead" of this point in time to bring it back into the future.
But I dunno if they were telling the truth as they have tried other "truths" as well.
The advisor also once recounted a story of the future when she was in one of "her unusual moods". Which means I generally think she is full of it.
She once told me on a whim something with a mental expression of a smile. She said that there were a few survivors of humanity and they would repopulate the earth after a massive dying off. She said in the thousands of years that followed, the human beings would leave the earth and go into space towards nearby solar systems. She said these would be known as time traveling aliens.
Then she said they would colonize many worlds and create lots of societies. But then run into problems with genetic diversity from the limited supply of people who survived. She then told her fable of how they would meet aliens in space who were already time travelers in their section of the reality and these would start (very fuzzy) a war?
She used an ambiguous mental expression that is something like foreign reptiliian or grey look-alike. I don't remember clearly as I didn't make a point to keep in my mind her many wild tales.
She said the human beings of that time would come back into their history on earth and look for babies and genetic material to regrow in their future. She said they needed children to reinsert lots of lost genetic lines that no longer existed.
Around that time was when she kept teasing me and jokingly calling me her great great great grandfather. (she was poking fun)
Anyway, I didn't take her story seriously and didn't think nothing of it. But years later I find this forum and my jaw dropped when I heard that different aliens were talking about that.
I found it deeply suspicious....to say the least.
Whether I want to admit it or not, she did seem to have time viewing technologies and talents. And sometimes when she told me her predictions and forecasts that was common knowledge among the aliens (so she claims), she sometimes expressed the series of events as if she were talking about history rather than the future.
So it made me suspicious, but I can't imagine her being a time traveler though. I would need extraordinary proof.
How many times were you blocked from posting before they left due to perception, not so much about content, but your intent behind the words you were posting?
If you mean how many times they blocked me by intent rather than by content. It would be a tricky question to answer.
They time things, they look for an opportunity. Sometimes I can read their mind or guess what they are thinking. But more often than not I am not aware of what their game plan is.
I am usually left to guess and draw from prior experience as to what they may be up to at any given time. It is usually an educated guess.
Sometimes they will tell me not to type something or apply pressure to have a conversations outcome to come out slightly differently. So when it jives a little too well I know they must have had some hand in it.
(oh I remembered an old memory just now)
What people don't often realize is that people are like pawns as the advisor said. A little push here, a little push there. Cause the body of one person to flush slight or to feel an emotion or two and it is like moving the titanic with a finger.
================================================
Let me just make up a wild example. I am going to let you take a peek at the behind the scenes activity in a portrayal of their kinds of operations.
Say an ET wanted to meet you in the middle of an ocean. You just happen to be going on a cruise liner for a vacation to the Bahama (whatever place). The ET uses telepathy to relay information to you that they will be meeting you soon.
[someone said they aren't comfortable with my explanation...<shrug and continues to ignore>]
You _obviously_ ask how? The ET responds they will meet you half way in the middle of the ocean far from land. You ask when? They say most likely in about 3 days through the trip. You ask them to be specific in location and time, near what landmark?
The ET telepathically responds "don't worry" it will be in approximately 68.9 hours and there are no landmarks in the ocean. As for the location <flashes a rought mental map of the route (which you are not aware of what it is)> and says roughly at this point. <a mental marker with visuals shows up and you have an understanding of when>.
ET adds that there may be a variance of...
[someone called me by name and said to "please stop"...]
......of 2 to 4 hours.
You continue on with the cruise and your have an mindful awareness of time passing throughout the cruise.
-----------------------------
@ Everyone
Now as an uninitiated regular run-of-the-mill human being there should be many questions on your mind about this communication. Right?
Go ahead, ask the questions that you thinking about in this scenario as you put yourself in that persons shoes.
I am left to wonder if ETI is somehow aware that the intent behind a message has the ability to shape the future emotional perception of a group. Would you say that ETI was concerned about the intent and an ability to transfer this intent as an inseminated perception?
To explain:
Is this concern due to recipients’ inability to understand where this perception came from, other then to believe it as their own? I have to ask if this was ever explained to you, and if so how?
More specifically are you using this as a tool to negotiate with ETI?
I'll wait for the questions before answering the rest.
Some people mistake compassion for weakness or think of it as giving in. It is neither. It takes a much stronger person to show that compassion while at the same time, doing their job.
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Re: My Experiences (Grey, Pleiadeans and Oddities) « Reply #1281 on Sept 9, 2008, 11:26pm »
Fore, are the greys more active with you at night, during the day or makes no difference to them day or night?
As for the example, why would a grey tell someone they will meet them in the future? Why not do what they "need" to do right then? Mind suggestion games?
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Re: My Experiences (Grey, Pleiadeans and Oddities) « Reply #1282 on Sept 10, 2008, 12:36am »
my first thought was interesting let's take out the pop corn cause I want to see how they are going to deviate this ship's course from the bahamas to the middle of the ocean.
Then I would keep an eye on the weather, and the ship's crew in general.
A 2-4 hour variance seems pretty accurate, I've seen it clocked at about 30 minutes (heard about the 15 but cannot vouch for it) so not too bad.
barring them just taking me off the ship and transporting me to the rendevouz point, but that would be no fun
As a run of the mill human,
1. who the heck are you? 2. why me and not mr. smith down the road 3. I'm going crazy... slap myself a few times 4. what is so freakin important that you would deviate an entire ship 5. don't you think quite a few people will notice 6. if it is so important why wait 7. what if I don't get on the ship (you can't make me nananana) 8. what are you up to 9. show me something that will tell me it's okay to get on this ship 10. Is the ship going to sink, are you rescuing me from hijackers.... what 11. can you give me a hint 12. I am going to tell someone about this in case I don't come back ----- take that back they will think I'm crazy... (back and forth) until the ship deviates course 13. and why in the middle of the ocean.... omg they are going to torture and kill me
basic stuff within the scenario provided
------------------
Next: for me I would like to know why
Why would they not want you to tell such a simple story?
Has this actually happened to you?
What would you expect the outcome to be and how would you explain the time variance?
Are you projecting an early or late arrival? If they can't say I would call them sloppy slackers
A final point what was your intent in relating this tidbit to us, beyond the content what were you trying to show us?
Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 523 Karma: 15
Re: My Experiences (Grey, Pleiadeans and Oddities) « Reply #1284 on Sept 10, 2008, 4:33am »
I'd ask about the state of consciousness they would allow/require me to be in at the beginning of and throughout the encounter. I'd also ask about the purpose of this encounter.
Other than that, I apparently am not all that curious. Maybe I just need an actual encounter to spark the curiosity.
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 75 Karma: 5
Re: My Experiences (Grey, Pleiadeans and Oddities) « Reply #1285 on Sept 10, 2008, 6:50am »
The scenario you have set out brings questions to mind. What I wonder is why did they say that time, 68.9 hours from the point of conversation regarding the meeting. So specific and yet then say there may be a variance of 2 to 4 hours. Makes me wonder how they come to that conclusion. Like they know the meeting will happen like they say but they can't predict exactly. They are not quite in control of making things happen in the linear way we do. It is not like me saying meet me at the Starbucks at 2. It would be like me saying I know my path will converge with yours when I am taking my daily dose of caffeine sometime in the afternoon because I know it happens like that. If that is the case then you can't not take the cruise because it has already happened really. Is that it?
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Re: My Experiences (Grey, Pleiadeans and Oddities) « Reply #1286 on Sept 10, 2008, 7:34am »
so would the 4hr window of opportunity indicate a limit to the view of the future, or limit to the control of variables? for instance the ship could hit a heavy swell and have to reduce speed, thus reaching the spot later than expected, or vice versa, but if the eti already knew this, why not give an exact time without the window?
this meeting would be part of a larger scenario? as in it is just a step on a journey? so individual stepping stones can be seen, but not necessarily the gaps in between? and/or is it a case of influencing only which stones are stepped on then the desired endpoint is reached without having to control every single variable in an immensely complex(by our standards) situation?
if the view was absolute then variables would play no part, because they would be seen and adjusted for. or is it just easier to leave some 'wiggle room' and save the effort of viewing multiple probabilities and weaving a msg out of several different strands of information?
Re: My Experiences (Grey, Pleiadeans and Oddities) « Reply #1287 on Sept 10, 2008, 2:31pm »
Hi fore,
In your reply #1262 you say, "It's not about *me* feeling that I need some kind of check. It is "they" who opt to do that.
The "they" is you.
Further, you say, "I know your model of relation with these entities is completely different than my own. I recognize your model of understanding to be somewhat awkward to be honest. I dunno how you came to develop such a strange viewpoint of relating to them in the way that you have stated. "
Awkward to you and what you cling to.
Your viewpoint is in no way "strange" to me. It is the general view in the world at the moment. Look around you. We live in the middle of a control paradigm of oneupsmanship and powerover.
Allow yourself to be transformed. A few examples of humanity knew this long before ETI ever became an issue.
The catapillar needs no leading to emerge as a butterfly.
Do you not realize that our own personal view colors EVERYTHING in our reality? Oh yes. We all see through the colored glasses of our own life experiences (which vary from person to person).
How could it be otherwise?
You said, "That is only half the equation. The other half is is the objective foundation upon which we project our personal view."
The "other"half is the ETI who is using the principle of the Downstep to communicate with you. This Downstep is a set of metaphors you can relate to according to what YOU are already bringing to the experience.
You interpret these metaphors the same way you interpret every other piece of information that enters your biomind - by the process I have already decribed.
The interpretations differ from one person to the next as illustrated by the following example:
Let's say two people view a circuit board. One person views it and sees a bunch of component parts that make no sense to him. But, the other person is an expert in electronics. He sees the circuit board entirely differently. He understands how all the component parts fit together, their function and how they operate.
They are both looking at the exact same circuit board but each has a different point of view about it depending upon WHAT they as an individual are BRINGING to the experience of viewing the circuit board. How could it be otherwise?
So, it is the same circuit board but two entirely different points of view based upon what each point of view is bringing to the same objective object.
It is exactly the same with ETI.
You continue, "If we all wore different colored glasses and looked at a tree, we would all describe the tree differently. But the tree itself stays real and independent of our views."
But one person knows what kind of tree it is, another doesn't. One person is a botanist, the other is a plumber. Two entirely different views of what the tree is. Yes, they can both agree on the color, the shape, the smell and other outward things because our physical senses work the same way. But what a tree IS goes far beyond our physcial senses. It reaches into what we know ABOUT a tree in our minds. Some folks live totally in their senses, others live totally in what a book told them. Some live completely in their minds. The balance is in between.
Now, with the ETI issue it is different than either of these two examples I mention above and yet the general principle of what I am talking about is illustrated by those examples.
With ETI you have a bioenergy who in its various worlds has a bioform which is multidimensional and capable of transversing many dimensions of time and space. This very real bioform (still part of the dreamtime) exists in a state which is incomprehensible to us because here we can only relate to three dimensions of space and one of time. This is our entire normal experience. We call anything outside that "paranormal."
"Paranormal" may still be logical but our view of what is "logical" is still very restricted because of our severe limitations at processing and understanding the frequencies constantly pouring into us from the Creation.
EXCEPT every now and then we are able to experience our consciousess OUTSIDE the regular 4D experiences of three dimensions of space and one of time, into a further dimension of space-time which has classically been called the "astral" plane.
The ancients on our planet knew about something beyond the five senses we normally experience. (It is ALL sensory but I won't get into that right now.)
Herein is the area wherein the multidimensional ET bioforms DOWNSTEP from their normal frequency. They can also downstep further into solid 3D matter as so many of us have clearly experienced.
That "downstepping" is for the sake of communication with us human beings on planet Earth as I have already pointed out.
This astral plane, which we are all familiar with during sleep with the spontaneous exteriorzation of our astrosome, has many different layers.
In the slower frequencies of the astral are manifestations such as "demons." In the upper layer are manifestations that have been called "angels." And, there are everything imaginable in the frequencies between those two polarities.
When ETI DOWNSTEPS we are relating to some level of what mankind's experience has always called, "the astral plane." This can seem physical as well as dreamlike. Emotional as well as mental. Some dreams are VERY real indeed. In ETIs case, more than one person can view them at a time.
The intensity of these experiences with ETI is due to the fact that YES they do have an objective bioform existance. They are ENERGETIC and their bioform effects OUR energy. We are interacting with energies in some way beyond our present comprehension.
How do we interpret this encounter?
According to what WE as an individual BRING to the whole experience.
But ETIs training program is not to instruct us about what they are (we cannot comprehend that at this point) but to get US to move toward an understanding of HOW we experience EVERYTHING.
This is preliminary.
So to do this, ANY ETI preceived bioform is possible. All of them are OUR perception of the energies we are seeing, hearing, touching, communicating with.
We are being prepared to understand how Creation itself WORKS.
This preliminary understanding is a prerequiste for Galactic citizenship.
First, we have to realize that a huge part of the mystery is to know WHO and WHAT we are and HOW we preceive things. We have a lot of false illusions about that.
As we discover this, we begin to learn that we are energetically connected to the ENTIRE COSMOS but only understand in our consciousness and mentality WHATEVER we bring to the experience. However, the experience itself is STRETCHING us to comprehend more and more.
The contradictions and controversies are for a very important PURPOSE.
ETI has stated that they wanted to produce a CONTROVERSY. Yep, it is a controversy simply because we havn't yet stretched ourselves beyond it. We are right now in that process right here on this forum! Wonderful! It is not any kind of "correctness" but transcending the whole concept of "right" and "wrong" by getting to where those concepts COME FROM in the first place.
That is to get us MULLING these matters over in our minds. Contemplating them. This very MULLING is a contemplation that cause NEW neural pathways to be established. It produces a change in our DNA and an expansion of consciousness. At the same time it is INTELLIGENCE ACCELERATION both WITH and WITHOUT outside energetic application. When we interact directly with ETI it is definitly intelligence acceleration with OUTSIDE energetic application. We are LEARNING about how the Comos operates and what the Great Creation IS. That both awes us and humbles us at the same time by the unsurpassing wonder of it.
And the training program is NOT forced but entirely voluntary. Why? Because ETI, unlike our culture, understands that LIFE is in no way an overcontrol of influence of one being over another.
That is to GET US ENTIRELY OUT of our current ignorant paradigm which is indeed the idea of overcontrol of influence of one being over another. This concept is due to our false so-called "science" and our defiled RELIGIONS. It is a oneupsmanship of "bosses" over "underlings." A very foolish illusion which we have ALL been brought up under. So, we project that onto ETI because we bring our OWN experience to the interaction.
Indeed we do.
We human beings on planet Earth think everything is some kind of pecking order. The big, better, best always has the "upper hand." But the truth is there IS NO big, better best. And there IS NO small, worse, worst. We tend to accept that as just "the way things ARE." That is a very ignorant supposition which this entire ETI interaction is desgined to help US overcome by causing us to PAUSE and THINK FOR OURSELVES.
And, just look around you. What you see in our suicidal dying civilization is JUST THAT. Ignorance. We got those erroneous ideas from our VERY ignorant science who has no conception of what "evolution" actually is.
But, we also got that idea from our DEFILED RELIGIONS which either consciously or subconsciously programmed us from the cradle.
It has been said by many, and true, I think, that the two human institutions with the most to LOOSE from ETI contact are 1) our present science and 2) the worlds organized "religious." Both have this "overcontrol" as the very basis for their existance. It is finished.
We have already been mind controlled to think we must have some superior being to tell us what to do and do our THINKING for us. This is foolishness.
It is exactly why our suicidal world is in this dying condition right now.
If we say, "we need an expert to tell us how it is." Then, "experts" will literally start popping out of the woodwork. It is the law of attraction.
The Universal intelligence want to help us stand on our own two feet. So, they offer exercises to that end.
They have a totally UNIFIED agenda. Pleiadeans right along side Greys. Sirians right alongside Andromedans. Orions right along side future earthlings traveling TIME.
There are not TWO agendas but only ONE agenda as I am clearly pointing out to you in this post. The "good guy/bad guy/good cop/bad cop scenario is not the reality of the situation at all. That is entirely OUR projection because we bring the ignorance of our OWN being to this ETI interaction. This is in no way "abnormal" but entirely normal. However, we have the opportunity to transcend this ignorance. We can take it or leave it.
In order to become a space-faring civilization that is not DANGEROUS to the rest of the multifarious biofoms we will encounter, we must understand this.
And that is exactly what ETI (ALL ETI FOR THEY ARE ONE) is teaching us at this moment.
And, montalk, you further said:
"In fact, by comparing our separate views and figuring out what they have in common - like seeing leaves, branches, and a trunk - we could figure out the independent reality."
I certainly agree with the first part but there is NO SUCH THING as an "independent" reality capable of being viewed from our limited perspective. Nope.
Many have not yet comprehended out utterly LIMITED the perspective of EVERY HUMAN BEING ON PLANET EARTH actually IS. We need ... STRECHING ... in order to become a space-faring civilization.
If you and I look at that chair we see something SIMILAR but not the same thing.
If you and I look at another person we see something similar but NOT THE SAME THING. The person is just as real as you or I am real but our perception STILL is OUR perception and that does vary.
Just ask any policeman trying to find out what happened in a car accident. TEN different points of view at least. Did the accident happen. Sure it did. It is just as "real" as anything else in this dreamtime. But, what are the details.
ETI is real. But, what are the details?
However, ETI being able to transcend DIMENSIONS is a little LESS "real," eh? We have far less information in our information processing grids with which to DEAL with the ETI phenomena than we do with regular everyday occurances.
For any outside thing we experience, our conception of it is ALWAYS conceived of BY OUR INDIVIDUAL BIOMIND.
Even impressions from the human spirit, if you believe in that, MUST STILL be filtered through that individual biomind.
No way around it.
And that's what I mean by saying that we all view the world through different colored glasses. Yes we coincide. But only partially.
If several people agree on something it is only a SOCIAL CONCENSUS REALITY due to coinciding individual concepts.
All that we call "reailty" is a dream.
All Creation is a dream.
A thought.
The only genuine "reality" is that First Thought out of which all else emerges. That First Identity/Intention. ETI is no more and no less that First Thought than we are. The only difference between us and the ETI is that they recognize it and we don't. So, they are WAKING US UP. ETI is in no way "above" us. Nor are be "below" ETI. There IS no high and there is no low. There is only Creation and it is an UNUM containing a PLENUM.
The WHOLE thing is a hologram. Each part energetically contains the WHOLE. How much of this does our consciousness recognize? Very very little. But more and more as we allow ourselves to be dealt with by our cosmic neighbors and RELATIVES who have already been with us from our VERY beginning but whom we are only NOW starting to recognize. Or RE-recognize is probably more accurate. Our recognition goes far beyond "good" and "evil." We are stuck in that duality and thus project it everywhere. We project it onto ETI. "Good agendas." "Bad agendas."
Its not an outside "agenda" AT ALL. It is OUR agenda having reached the point of totaly unsustainablity on this little planet Earth due to our introverted ignorance.
And then you said,
"And so by cross-correlating our personal experiences with each other and the available literature out there on UFOs and alien abductions, enough of an independent reality emerges indicating that not all alien agendas are ethical or benevolent."
Our own point of view. Let's face it. If ETI wanted to destroy us, we would ALREADY be toast.
Perhaps many have not yet realized that the Creation is LAW. That is, it operates by mathematical principles. One of those principles is how beings of VERY high intellegence deal with beings of lower intelligence.
What do we of very low intelligence do right here on Earth?
We kill. We exploit. We control. We are selfish. We have a view that the one with the biggest stick prevails. So, we project that ETI must be the same way. Duuuh. This is sheer ignorance.
On the other side of the coin, we see angelic beings coming to "save" us from our ignorance and so we put them up on a pedestal and WORSHIP them as gods. This is the HISTORY of the human race! At last we have found SOMEONE to tell us what to do. Nonsense.
ETI is NEITHER of these.
Our preceptions of them are entirely based upon what we already know. What is it we already know? Exactly what I have stated in the two paragraphs directly preceding this one.
Your "fear" of "evil ETs" is based upon that paradigm you see all around you now. The one that is now crumbling into dust and ashes because it is entirely constipated, introverted, fearful, controlling, angry, violent and self serving.
Understanding this ETI phenomena requires a TRANSFORMATION of not just our thinking but our WHOLE BEING.
And, that is EXACTLY what their training program is bringing about to those who are willfully engaged in it. It is all just ONE training program, friend. Not several. ONE INTENTION. It is entirely OUR choice. But, you see, energetically the Earth herself is about to undergo a big transformation and so it behooves us to pay attention to those "strange" lights in the sky and ask ourselves. "What could this mean?" A good place to start. And that's where most of us did start finding out about this. However, the insights are ongoing and UNENDING. Just when you think you have it pinned down ... further insight.
Eventually, hopefully very soon, there will be enough of that insight for us to take our place in the Cosmos along side our ETI neighbors and relatives.
The downward spiral of this world situation demands it.
We are being prepared for that right now because we CRIED out to the Universe while writhing in our pain and despair. There is NO OTHER nefarious or religious or deceptive agenda.
ALL those ideas are simply our own projection of our present view of what "reality" is. ETI doesn't "correct" anything, only helps us to figure it out FOR OURSELVES.
That's what we are doing on this thread. Mulling it around and each contributing their own point of view. We can do that because inwardly we recognize that this is far more important than who wins the world series or who the next president is or whatever.
The "other"half is the ETI who is using the principle of the Downstep to communicate with you. This Downstep is a set of metaphors you can relate to according to what YOU are already bringing to the experience.
[...]
The Universal intelligence want to help us stand on our own two feet. So, they offer exercises to that end.
They have a totally UNIFIED agenda. Pleiadeans right along side Greys. Sirians right alongside Andromedans. Orions right along side future earthlings traveling TIME.
There are not TWO agendas but only ONE agenda as I am clearly pointing out to you in this post. The "good guy/bad guy/good cop/bad cop scenario is not the reality of the situation at all. That is entirely OUR projection because we bring the ignorance of our OWN being to this ETI interaction. This is in no way "abnormal" but entirely normal. However, we have the opportunity to transcend this ignorance. We can take it or leave it.
Thank you for laying out your position so clearly. I find your post very useful to my studies. Your perspective also bears similarity to Dan Smith's BPWH theory. He proposes that all aliens are nonphysical ultra-terrestrials here to end the tyranny of scientific materialism and enlighten mankind to a higher reality. So I guess mixing his terminology with yours, aliens would be UTIs instead of ETIs. Over the years I have come across other perspectives that differ in the details but push in the same direction. Very interesting stuff. Thanks again.
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that I asked her to do that again and again. Well she did it a few times and then she refused. And only used it when I refused to listen to her directly. She would simulcast her thoughts through more than one individual throughout a day to get her point across.
) about some of their activities. And as well as being careful what they display.
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